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> The Palpatine Arrest Scene... Realistic?
AdmiralTreyDavid
post Mar 20 2010, 08:22 AM
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So, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, and I can't remember the other Jedi in the group at the moment, go to arrest Chancellor Palpatine, AKA Darth Sidious, the Sith Lord.

Saesee Tiin and the Jedi I can't remember are killed instantly; literally within the first 5 seconds of the fight, and Kit Fisto dies like 10 seconds later.

Is that really very realistic? I understand that Palpatine is very powerful in the Force, but it's not like the Jedi should have been taken by surprise that he was going to fight them... I mean if you're going to arrest a Sith Lord who happens to be the current ruler of the entire galaxy, you've got to expect SOME resistance, right??

So how could two slices of a saber easily kill two renown, veteran Jedi, and mere seconds later, another? I never understood how, in realistic terms, three Jedi could be wiped out so quickly. I understand why, in cinematic terms, it was done. Obviously the fight was supposed to focus on Palpatine and Mace Windu, but that seems like a pretty embarrassing way to kill off three Jedi.

What does everyone else think? ;D


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Zideric
post Mar 20 2010, 11:50 AM
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Palpatine is extremely powerful. And the Jedi who where going to arrest him probably didn't expect him to grab his lightsaber instantly, and jump at them. Besides, it isn't very easy to fight at full strength in a chancellor's office.

Another thing: Sith fight in ways of pure destruction. And they will use any power they want to if they know how to use it. Jedi are more defensive, and they won't use all powers, even if they know how to use them.

So Palpatine was able to jump and maw around with his lightsaber, cause he didn't really care what he would hit. The three Jedi who where going to arrest him, standed right next to eachother. They couldn't just go swinging around their lightsabers, and they had to protect eachother.


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AdmiralTreyDavid
post Mar 22 2010, 02:59 AM
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QUOTE (Zideric @ Mar 20 2010, 11:50 AM) *
Palpatine is extremely powerful. And the Jedi who where going to arrest him probably didn't expect him to grab his lightsaber instantly, and jump at them. Besides, it isn't very easy to fight at full strength in a chancellor's office.

Another thing: Sith fight in ways of pure destruction. And they will use any power they want to if they know how to use it. Jedi are more defensive, and they won't use all powers, even if they know how to use them.

So Palpatine was able to jump and maw around with his lightsaber, cause he didn't really care what he would hit. The three Jedi who where going to arrest him, standed right next to eachother. They couldn't just go swinging around their lightsabers, and they had to protect eachother.


This is all true, but I still don't get it. Them standing together is a valid point, but I can't imagine Jedi, who are abe to swat blaster bolts out of the sky, have reflexes slow enough for not one, but TWO to get nailed immediately. And Kit Fisto dying 10 seconds later isn't explained by any of that because he had time to spread out and was obviously aware that Palpatine was fighting by that point.

I know that Palpatine was obviously more powerful than any of the Jedi in the room, even Mace Windu, the Order's best swordsman, but it's like in MMA, even if one guy is a WAY better fighter than another guy, the other guy usually puts up a pretty good fight because he's still trained. And the fact that Jedi are defensive should work in their favor; they demonstrated pretty terrible defensive skills by getting cut down so fast.

Again, I understand why it was done, in terms of cinema, but it doesn't seem right that a Jedi Master would be killed by Palpatine's very first swing of the lightsaber when an inexperienced Jedi Apprentice like Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to hold his own against Darth Maul, a highly trained Sith, before getting kicked down the shaft.


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Darth Bane
post Mar 22 2010, 05:06 PM
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I think the confusion lies in the filming techniques. In 'Menace, when Qui-gonn and Kenobi Force run to get away from the droid dekas on the Trade Federation ship, Lucas uses a blurring technique to show they're moving at super high speed. However, for the most part, Lucas doesn't like using shots like that. He also never does slow motion shots... In the fight in Palpatine's office, sped up film to show Palpatine moving at blinding speed would have worked, but they chose not to do it that way. Sidious was supposed to be moving so fast, even the best Jedi couldn't keep up with him. (I think the 3rd Jedi's name was Agen Kolar, by the way.) I suppose you could say, that's how he seemed to be moving by Jedi standards. To anyone else watching, they just would have seen a blur, then 2 bodies dropping simultaneously and 2 seconds later, a third. Then it was just him and Master Windu.

On a personal note, I don't think Sidious would just let himself be scarred just to help get Anakin's sympathy and help. I think Windu had him on the ropes! Would liked to have seen how that scene would have ended if Anakin hadn't arrived! -Bob
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master_palin
post Mar 22 2010, 08:57 PM
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I found the scene in the movie a bit un-realistic , but after all this is a fantasy world and unreal things happen all the time.. aka the FORCE ha!!..
But yea I think it had a lot to do with the way it was filmed and shot etc. Now do I find it unreal that a Sith Lord could have taken out a couple jedi yea that I can agree to.. Should it have happend in the blink of the eye Nope I dont agree with that, but my opinion never matters.

personally I think Mace would have killed palps had anikin not shown up. But there is a whole topic on that around here somewhere. the whole was Palpatine fakeing it for the sake of Anikin or was he really on the ropes. I think part of it was for show once Anikin showed up. But Just before that it appeared Mace was gaining the advantage. I think Palptaine once again over estimated himself and under estimated some of the jedi. We see this happen again with his fight with Yoda. His faith in his complete control over Vader in RTOJ. His superiority complex that he feels the rebels can't possibly touch him. He has a real problem and just gets proven wrong time after time.


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Switch
post May 12 2010, 10:33 PM
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I just read something while lurking on another forum today about this very scene, and couldn't help sharing.

From what I read there was a behind the scenes clip about how this scene was supposed to happen. The person posting this said that it detailed that the stunt coordinator had planned a very elaborate and kick butt fight scene using the stunt men to pull it off. Lucas apparently had other ideas and the day of the shoot said they were shooting it with Ian McDiarmid, and not his stuntman. McDiarmid was taught the fight sequence on the fly which had to be"dumbed down" because he didn't have the physical capability to pull of what the stunt men could have, and this probably accounts for why they got rid of the three jedi so fast. It sounded like it was originally choreographed to be a longer fight, and for the jedi to put up more of a fight, but I doubt it was really plausible with McDiarmid and thus shortened and made "simpler."

I know it doesn't explain it from within the Star Wars universe, but I thought it was interesting. I'm going to have to hunt down this behind the scenes clip and check it out for myself.
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master_palin
post May 12 2010, 11:00 PM
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Well I know there is truth to that.. Lucas wanted more close ups etc and didtne want to switch alot between stunt men and the actors. for that scene So yes they did dumb it down.

Alot of things done when filming SW or any movie get done due to limitations of actors and effects. Lightsabers have shadows because they used solid poles when filming the scene.
Luke uses a Green lightsaber because the green showed up better against the desert than the blue. That one simple decession opened the can of worms over light saber colors and crystals.


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Rebel Clone
post Jun 7 2010, 11:24 PM
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Best way to say is is they werent strong enough in the force. haha


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Jayce76
post Nov 17 2011, 10:38 PM
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I don't need realism in my Star Wars!! Shame!!

I think Palptine overwelming the Jedi was right for the movie. However if there's slightly more footage of Fisto before he bites the big one that would be great.




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