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> History unites us...
Leia_
post Oct 16 2003, 08:40 PM
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There are no eternal friends, there are only eternal interests...

How better to get to know someone than learn the history of his/hers country?
What are the greatest peaks, the greatest weakness...
What are you most proud of, what are you most ashamed of...
And let's keep years after 1989 off of the stage...

WARNING : please keep this topic non-political.. Don't discuss recent politics, it's against the rules smilesmall.gif

p.s. : this is inspired by Blue's "traditions and holidays" oyster topic...


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And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are?
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Leia_
post Oct 16 2003, 08:47 PM
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I guess I have to start...

First you might want to go to http://www.bulgaria.com/history/rulers/

I'm most proud of my ancestors before Simeon I and him of course...
Then Kaloyan, the playboy laugh.gif

And I'm most ashamed of the years we were under Byzantium and Osman slavery smilesmall.gif

[oh, let's not forget Levski, te person who made the April uprising possible. Btw has any of you heard of him?]

and a question: do you know a Bulgarian, and who is he ? Please, don't point Stoichkov, if you're aware of another smilesmall.gif


*sits and wonders if anyone will reply*


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Warrame
post Oct 18 2003, 12:15 AM
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Wasn't Spartacus Bulgarian? (Or at least her came from the country that is now called Bulgaria)

Australia started out its European occupancy as a prison colony. This was cool, as if it wasn't for that, my family wouldn't be here. (One of my ancestors was a convict)

One of the things I don't like about our history was the genocide of the Aboriginals in Tasmania.


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I don't say that our sources are right. I say that your sources are not. (Leia_)
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Leia_
post Oct 18 2003, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE
Warrame: (18 Oct, 2003 01:15):
Wasn't Spartacus Bulgarian? (Or at least her came from the country that is now called Bulgaria)
I believe he was a Greek.

Europeans brought cats in Australia, didn't they...
smilehuge.gif


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Krisa
post Oct 20 2003, 12:00 AM
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I thought Spartacus was a Roman gladiator who rebelled against the slavery or something...or is that just a movie?


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Warrame
post Oct 20 2003, 08:04 AM
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"Spartacus was from the country of Thrace... what we call Bulgaria today"


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Leia_
post Oct 20 2003, 06:27 PM
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*finds huge dictionary*
*opens it*
*reads about Spartacus*
me: oops...
Ok he was thracian, he lived in what is today Bulgaria...
I guess I don't consider him Bulgarian, because I don't think of thracians to be part of Bulgarian culture, although they are...

Ok, don't ever tell my history teacher about this
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Blue Harvest
post Oct 21 2003, 10:17 PM
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As a history buff I encourage all topics to do with history. msn_yes.gif I love to hear a good story and what better stories are there than in our history books?

It's very important to learn about history so that we don't repeat the same mistakes. Now... before you start to snore in the middle of my post I just have to make a little point... wink.gif Leia_ posed the question: "What are you most proud of, what are you most ashamed of..."
The words "proud" and "ashamed" make me a little uneasy.

History is just that... history. In the past. These things that would make us proud or ashamed are things that none of us had anything to do with personally. I know I've said this before... We can not control into what family we are born, what race we are or to which country we belong (at least not at birth).

I'm not saying that this is news to any of you. I'm just urging you to think twice before you take pride or shame in events that are long over. The best thing we can do is make sure that history is not forgotten, and that is what we are doing here today.

Ok, that is quite enough from me for now. I'd like to know more about Kaloyan. Could you fill us in Leia_? In your own words? Don't write an essay, just give us the best bits. What made him a playboy? wink.gif


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I have a question about voodoo:
If one half of a pair of identical twins has acupuncture... is the other twin in serious trouble?

"Of all the things I've lost. I miss my mind the most." - Ozzy
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Leia_
post Oct 21 2003, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE
Blue Harvest (21 Oct, 2003 23:17):
Ok, that is quite enough from me for now. I'd like to know more about Kaloyan. Could you fill us in Leia_? In your own words? Don't write an essay, just give us the best bits. What made him a playboy? wink.gif
*resist opening the encyclopedia*
first of all, when I was in 9th grade, my history teacher [about 24-26 y.o.] was in love with Kaloyan. She used to talk about what he did every second we had free and she was all dreamy smilesmall.gif
I know I know, but it is true laugh.gif

Kaloyan was the younger of three brothers and was not intended to be a king, so he was sent in the best school of it's time in Byzantium to study [weird enough it was not the king who'd get the higher education eyeball.gif].
He was something like a slave to the emperor, to guarantee peace or something, but he also had access to every social gathering... And he was beautiful [like every Bulgarian], so he had almost every woman at this time for a lover ...

Now I'm not very sure, but I think he was killed because of one of the princesses, but I gotta check it out...

And now if someone tells me back then they didn't know how to live...


--------------------

****
Did you lose yourself way out there? Did you get to be a star?
****
Have I told you that I loved you today?
***
And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are?
****
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Blue Harvest
post Oct 22 2003, 04:17 AM
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Isn't it amazing what a difference a good or passionate teacher can make? smile.gif

So, is it safe to say that he was the Bulgarian equivalent to Cassanova? tounge.gif Is there a specific story that springs to mind when you think of him? Like something that really grabbed your attention and make you remember him?

I have one of those historical trivia facts that just came back to me this very instant... Hundreds of years ago arranged marriages were common in Sweden. This was of course also true for royalty. Which in turn led to love-less marriages and ex-marital affairs... yadda yadda yadda. You know how it goes.

In at least one case that we know of, one of these arranged marriages were actually a great success. That was the marriage between King Gustav the 2nd Adolf and his Queen (I forget her name, sorry... I think she was German). King Gustav was a great warlord and was killed in one of his battles. When he died the queen was so stricken with grief that she kept herself locked away in a room where the king lay on "lit de parade" and refused for him to be buried. She also kept the king's heart with her in a special box.

I remember this story because it was so uncommon for royal spouces to be so attached to one another (this was in the 17th cent)... and also because it's kinda gross when you think about it. laugh.gif Anyway, it's a good story.


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I have a question about voodoo:
If one half of a pair of identical twins has acupuncture... is the other twin in serious trouble?

"Of all the things I've lost. I miss my mind the most." - Ozzy
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Leia_
post Oct 22 2003, 09:15 AM
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nope, nothing specific I remember about any of our king's lovelifes... Maybe because I'm not interested in them...

Oh I remember about our first chan - Asparuh, who was in love with a woman, so smart and powerful that the priests were afraid she maight take their power if she marries him.
So they said a woman like her is so smart that the great God - Tangra wants to take her as soon as possible [as 20-30 years would matter for a god:(], and she was sacrificed soon after...
Now that's mean...

Conspiracies and treacheries were common here. Most of our kings were killed in their camps while they were about to conquer yet another part of the Balkans...

p.s. when I was talking about "pride" and "shame" I didn't mean it in that way... I actually am proud of some historical facts concerning my country.
For instance I like the way Kaloyan managed to make Bulgarian chusrch independant, using the enmity between Rome and Byzantium.
Did you know Bulagria and Byzantium signed the first iconomical treaty?
Or when Krum beheaded the emperor and made a cup out of his skull....
I'm proud that Bulgarian army has not lost any battle for 1000+ years, but I'm ashamed that Bulgarian politicians managed to ruin every victory ...
Not that I particulary care. Just the knowledge of how great my ancestors were is enough for me.
You know one of the candidates for mayor of the capital claims he'll return Bulgaria in the hands of Tangra and we will rule Europe like we did 1500 years ago. Now that's ... childish.
But it's not fair a country that has been so great to be so low in its existence today... I'm pretty sure that in 1000 years this period will be called "the dark era" ...


--------------------

****
Did you lose yourself way out there? Did you get to be a star?
****
Have I told you that I loved you today?
***
And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are?
****
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Warrame
post Oct 22 2003, 01:02 PM
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Incidently, my favourite kind of history is naval history, but that's neither here nor there.
My history teacher last year thinks I should get a career in history. I'm not so sure myself...

anyhoo...

Over here in Australia, we don't have a real lot of European history. But one of my favourite, non-Navel things to learn about was the Eureka Stockade. And the rum rebellion.

But I thought I'd tell you this fact that was written on the blackboard in my homeroom one day.

"On the day of South Australia's first hanging, a public holiday was declared. People came in droves to watch the hanging, then they sat down to enjoy a picnic lunch"


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I don't say that our sources are right. I say that your sources are not. (Leia_)
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Sabé
post Oct 24 2003, 05:16 AM
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Hmmm... Interesting topic. smile.gif

Let's see... Er... I guess I'm "proud" that America has good schools and good opportunities and all that stuff. thinking.gif But I'm "ashamed," among many other things, because I feel like I'm from such an incredibly boring country. I don't know, I suppose my 8th grade U.S. history teacher would disagree, but.... *shrug* I do like the U.S. government system, though. All very interesting. Anyhow, I suppose that's not really history, but it's all my mind can bear to think up at the moment. thinking.gif


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mara jade
post Nov 24 2003, 02:46 PM
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i know a bulgarian smilesmall.gif hes name is pesalov and he was in the croatian representation a few years ago...he lifts weights....im sure Leia_ knows him...whe won a couple olimpics madalls too... smilesmall.gif

i just found this topic, and i love the idea of it....i have to think hard about what im proud and am not...hm....

im proud of my country and my people cause when the war was here they didnt just give up, they defended out country, even tho we were weaker, and didnt have a lot of weapons...but thats another story.... im ashamed cause a lot of croatians seem afraid to talk good about my country...i see in america they have flags on buildings even when its not a hollyday and they are proud of their country...other nations too...i think thats great...and i remember some people from the eu telling us that we are nationalists cause we had flags out on thanksgiving day...hm...and since then everybody is so so silent, in order to not hurt anybodys feelings, but i dont see anything wrong in just loving your country and being proud of it....that doesnt hurt anybody...

am i wrong? eyeball.gif i tiped this really quickly so i might not have been to accurate....hope i wasnt political, that is how i feel.... confused.gif

Warrame:- a convict? hehe...thats so cool.....i envy you in a really weird way eyeball.gif


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Leia_
post Nov 24 2003, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE
mara jade (24 Nov, 2003 14:46):
i know a bulgarian smilesmall.gif hes name is pesalov and he was in the croatian representation a few years ago...he lifts weights....im sure Leia_ knows him...whe won a couple olimpics madalls too... smilesmall.gif
No, I dont know of him. But it's true that Bulgaria has some great leftweighters laugh.gif

And I know what you're talking about with the "proudness" I believe we chatted ovr this topic once and you know how bad I feel of the fact that everything that comes from the Balkans is considered bad. We talked about it with my teacher is social studies, and he said that Europe would never accept a country, where boza is drunk confusedbig.gif Now, I found this simply humiliating. sad.gif

One thing I don't like throughout Bulgarian history is that Bulgarians are very nica and patient people. Don't lesten to what Yoda tells Luke - patience is a bad thing!


--------------------

****
Did you lose yourself way out there? Did you get to be a star?
****
Have I told you that I loved you today?
***
And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are?
****
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Warrame
post Nov 26 2003, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE
mara jade (24 Nov, 2003 14:46):

Warrame:- a convict? hehe...thats so cool.....i envy you in a really weird way eyeball.gif


*giggles* Yes... it is strangely enviable. eyeball.gif


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mara jade
post Nov 26 2003, 04:50 PM
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yes, unfortunatelly some people have prejudice against people from Balkan.that is cause some people had come to live in western state in europe and they didnt behave properly....and now people think that everybody from this region is ill mannered...that makes me sadbig.gif too....my friends were in england and were walking down the street and just talking in croatian and some people started shouting at then and calling them names....and they were like 19 years old, just visiting london....

i know there is a much begger problem with the turks that with anybody else.....but croatians are a peacefull people...we never caused much trouble but cause we were all in Jugoslavia people still putt as there and blame us for things some jugoslavians did....

talking about our history....since we are a relatively small country we never attacked other countries in order to make our country larger...but we were under turks in the middle ages and then under hungarian empire...that was a bad perioc cause noone was allowed to speak croatian.kids had to learn hungarian in school and all of the street names and documents were in hungarian....


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Haemus
post Mar 18 2004, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (Warrame @ Oct 20 2003, 08:04 AM)
"Spartacus was from the country of Thrace... what we call Bulgaria today"

Yes, Spartacus was a Thracian - captured by the Romans (after a battle against them) and later on forced to be a gladiator. He was a brave soldier and organized an uprising against the Romans during a traing camp in S. Italy, defeating 3 of their legions on his way to Northern Italy/Austria.
Anyway, I strongly believe that our BG origin is more Tracian+slavonic than proto-bulgarian.
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Leia_
post Mar 18 2004, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (Haemus @ Mar 18 2004, 09:31 PM)
I strongly believe that our BG origin is more Tracian+slavonic than proto-bulgarian.

that's something I will never agree with.

First of all, I never really accepted that Tracians had anything in common with the Bulgarian country.
For me, they are just these people who live in some areas of the country, which some of the Bulgarians rulers said are Bulgarian theritory, but they are not really part of the social life.

Besides before Krum and Boris Slavs and Bulgarians gathered only during wars. Slavs were more, but they never had their country.
I really think that the nucleous that gathered the Bulgarian country on the Balkans are the Bulgarians, .. or the "proto-Bulgarians" as they are taught in school.

They gave more to the culture and to today's way of thinking of most Bulgarians. Not the Slavs...

Anyway, you said "our origin" ... Does that mean that you are Bulagrian?


--------------------

****
Did you lose yourself way out there? Did you get to be a star?
****
Have I told you that I loved you today?
***
And don't it make you sad to know that life is more than who we are?
****
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Haemus
post Mar 19 2004, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Leia_ @ Mar 18 2004, 08:43 PM)
First of all, I never really accepted that Tracians had anything in common with the Bulgarian country.
For me, they are just these people who live in some areas of the country, which some of the Bulgarians rulers said are Bulgarian theritory, but they are not really part of the social life.


They gave more to the culture and to today's way of thinking of most Bulgarians. Not the Slavs...

It's such a pity that you don't accept the facts then... Before thre proto-bulgars came (in the 7th AD) and settled in our lands the name of the country was Thrace for thusands of years.
http://www.digsys.bg/books/history/thracians.html
http://www.dia.org/exhibitions/ancientgold/
http://www.sofiaecho.com/history02.php
http://www.thrace.0catch.com/pictures.htm
http://www.unc.edu/awmc/downloads/area_a7_regionsMed.jpg
http://plato-dialogues.org/tools/east_med.htm

It's such a paradox minority of Bulgars assimilates the majotity of Thracian and Sclaveni people... Of course, I am one of your countrymates. confused.gif

"Due to the invasions of Celts, Goths, Huns, Avars and other “barbarian” tribes, these areas were populated with Thracians, Illyrians, Macedonians, Panonians, Dalmatinans and others. Byzantine Emperors could not oppose to the Slav migration, since at that time they were engaged in severe battles with the invading Arabs in Asia Manor. The Slavs assimilated the greater part of the native population in the Balkan Peninsula, the rest being driven to the high unapproachable mountains. From the 7th till around the end of the 10th century many of the Slav tribes, known as Sclaveni, were independent and rules by their own princes."
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