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> Why the Hate?
Leiafan
post Oct 13 2010, 02:25 AM
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No problem, Madison. I shouldn't have gone off-topic in the first place.

Corellian, you make some interesting points, although I agree with none of them. I've seen many "alternate prequel trilogies," which are supposedly "better." IMO, they are simply more crowd-pleasing. The haters say, "Lucas should have listened to the fans!" Which fans? And if he had "done what the fans wanted," he'd get torn to shreds for "pandering to the public instead of courageously doing something different." If he had made the PT exactly like the OT, the same people who are complaining that the PT is "too different" would instead be complaining that he's an untalented hack who just aped his earlier work. And, of course, no matter what the scenario, he would have been accused of "just doing the PT for the money."

Actually, he funded the prequels himself, as I once told a basher. The basher's reply: "He knew he'd make all that money back and more." Oh really? So precognition can be added to the long list of incredible abilities that Lucas possesses, which include the ability to "ruin" actors and the ability to make people continue to spend their time and money on his "crappy movies"?

Darth Maul fulfilled his purpose. There was no reason to keep him around other than "He looks cool." And he's "better than Tyranus"? How? He's dispatched pretty quickly, as I recall. I agree Qui Gon is a great character, and it was sad to see him die, but he, too fulfilled his purpose.

Anakin was gullible? Hm...well, I guess you could say that. He does, after all, turn to the Dark Side. That isn't exactly a smart thing to do. In fact, it's an extremely dumb thing to do. Some say that he "should have done this" and "should have done that." Yes, of course he should have done this, that, and the other thing. But he didn't. He turned to the Dark Side. Is turning to the Dark Side supposed to be an intelligent, rational decision that he pondered over, weighing the options carefully?

I can imagine the Jedi vs. the Mandalorians, and I do not think it would have been better. It's too EUish for my taste, and I am grateful that Lucas ignored the EU while making the prequels, save for taking a name or a character here and there (Aayla Secura, Coruscant).

I'm sure there are people who absolutely hate the prequels. But all of the movies were huge financial successes, no matter how many times the media says otherwise...IMDB.com sneered in its "10 Year Anniversary" tribute to itself that TPM "failed to unseat 'Titanic'," and "Its opening weekend didn't beat out the opening weekend for 'The Lost World.'" No mention of the fact that it grossed over $400 million in the U.S. alone, which is an awfully big haul for a movie that "everyone hates."


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Corellian Scound...
post Oct 13 2010, 06:10 PM
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Excellent points Leiafan. However, I must stress that I'm not one of the haters. Perhaps for some of us the expectations were higher and the anticipation took the best of us.

I do happen to like and admire the prequels. In some cases, I wanted to see more about our favorite characters. (The graphic novels gave a good chance on that)

Mr. Lucas is a personal hero of mine, and I do not think anything less about him and his talent. He is very respected in his field and with very good reasons.

Is been cool reading your point of view. Hope to see you around the forum!

What is your opinion on EU? Do you think they compliment the movies?

wink.gif


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Anna
post Apr 11 2011, 07:32 PM
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Hm, I may be a bit late, but I've got a theory about the original question, why some people hate the prequels. Now, maybe I should say I'm not a very big prequel fan myself and I've got my own reasons for that, but that's not the point here and I'll keep my mouth shut about it.

But hate? It's a bit of a strong emotion towards a movie. Okay, three movies. Still, the amount of bashing is surprising.

I think there's a certain pattern in those who say they really hate the prequels: there's often sentences like "ruined my childhood" or "destroyed all of the movies". From that I'd conclude that those who complain the loudest are people who have grown up with the original trilogy (some, not all of them. Forgive the crude generalization, and all further ones to come). Who, in other words, were children, or at least very young (much younger than when they saw the new ones) when they watched the OT for the first time. And consequently were completely enchanted by this amazing universe. Children usually don't think "how can they hear the fighters if there's a vacuum in space, as vacuums don't transport sound?" or "but asteroid fields are nowhere as dense, in fact they'd be lucky if they found a single rock on their way through." They think, "wow, cool, knights! Princesses! Awesome vessels! In space!" or something along those lines.

And whenever they rewatch the movies, they feel a bit like that child again (well, I'd guess, because that's how I feel). So, there's this giant fanbase, who, despite having minor complaints ('cause you can't watch something you love dozens of times without wondering about a thing or two), LOVE the movies.

Then the special edition comes along. A lot of people don't like it when something they love changes, even if some of the changes may have been a good thing. This may not have something do to with the prequels, but it created a certain atmosphere of complaint, dissatisfaction with the franchise, which may have played into the reception of the Phantom Menace, only two years later.

So then, what happens? The people who loved these movies from the beginning have grown up. Maybe it's been twenty years since they stood in line to see A New Hope in 1977, or it wasn't that much time, but the impression has sunken in. And they've grown up with this idea of what Star Wars should be like. Then the announcement comes around, that there will be NEW movies. How completely awesome!

There's this giant atmosphere of expectation. So much expectation, someone was always going to be disappointed.
But an adult does have a different perspective on movies than a child. Something that may have seemed cool to a kid isn't as impressive when you've seen a bunch more, developed some ideas of your own. Now suddenly the same thing seems like a boring repetition. And, sorry about another crude generalization, but a lot of people who like science fiction are moved to find out more about how this sciency stuff works. And may move on to study scientifical or mathematical subjects which will enlighten them about a lot of things and also make it more obvious to them when a piece of fiction (and Star Wars in general is pretty soft sci-fi, let's be honest) gets it completely wrong.

Now people who didn't like the original movies, I guess they shrugged and went on with their lives and found other movies to like. But someone who has loved the franchise for years and then goes to watch another movie, expects it to shake their world like the originals did (essentially to make them feel like a kid again, but since then they've started seeing things with the eyes of an adult), there's very little room for satisfaction and a lot of room for complaints.

Add some usual internet phenomenons (phenomena?) (it's easy to be rude when you're anonymous; people with complaints are almost always louder than the ones who are happy with something) and you've got this Lucas bashing phenomenon snowballing.

And of course then you can add nitpicking about the execution of the movies, but this isn't the place for that.

(Woops, this seems to have turned into half a social sciences paper. Sorry about the length, I hope it's understandable!)
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Leiafan
post Jul 4 2011, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Corellian Scoundrel @ Oct 13 2010, 07:10 PM) *
Excellent points Leiafan. However, I must stress that I'm not one of the haters. Perhaps for some of us the expectations were higher and the anticipation took the best of us.

I do happen to like and admire the prequels. In some cases, I wanted to see more about our favorite characters. (The graphic novels gave a good chance on that)

Mr. Lucas is a personal hero of mine, and I do not think anything less about him and his talent. He is very respected in his field and with very good reasons.

Is been cool reading your point of view. Hope to see you around the forum!

What is your opinion on EU? Do you think they compliment the movies?

wink.gif

Thanks for your comments. And to answer the question you ask at the end of your post: I dislike the EU quite strongly, save for the odd novel or comic here and there, and no, I do not think the EU complements the movies.


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darthnecrum
post Jan 7 2012, 02:55 AM
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Hi Leiafan,

you make some good points and you do have the right to share your opinion, and thankyou for doing so, my only suggestion is that you make it less personal eg. "they are all losers". This is only for practical reasons as it allows people to focus on the points you are making and not the personal attacks and therefore engage in stimulating discussion.

For what it's worth, I was one of the original and fiercest PT haters, but the PT is growing on me now. It's alot of fun once you stop trying to join the dots between the OT and the PT.

Speaking of fun, why don't you google 'Plinkett's Star Wars Reviews" and see his perspective. You won't agree with them, but they ARE alot of fun, although the whole serial killer gag is a little bit disturbing confusedsmall.gif

Cheers!

Darthy


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darthnecrum
post Jan 7 2012, 03:04 AM
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Shistavanen Jedi
post Feb 12 2012, 08:20 PM
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I will say that I like the OT more than the Prequels. Part of that has got to be the fact that I am of the older generation who grew up with the OT. I have often found that younger people tend to prefer the Prequels and that people my age (30) or older prefer the OT. It was apparent on the forum I used to be a moderator of which isn't active anymore.

Since seeing the Prequels, I've also had the time to read a lot of the EU stuff from the Prequel Era (Quinlan Vos's graphic novels and the Clone Wars series of graphic novels) and along with the novels, these books have given me a chance to look into the backgrounds and storylines of the characters and I like young Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan much better than I was able to ten years back.

I've never had a problem with Jake Lloyd's performance in The Phantom Menace either and I really don't see where the hatred of the actor has come from. (And yeah, he was a kid at the time, so of course he would have messed up sometimes, which you should be able to forgive).

My real problem with the prequels really came with Revenge of the Sith because I expected more from it than we got, but that is the hazard you take when you're a fan of somethng.

So no, I don't hate the prequels. I do think that they could have been improved (and the CGI scenes in ROTS could have been less silly in places - they make the old way of doing special effects seem more real, sometimes).

Compared to Lord of the Rings? There was a time when I couldn't decide which set of films I liked better - but more recently I've decided that Lord of the Rings has to be the better trilogy - the scope of the story, the acting, the sets, the music - everything about it makes it the better trilogy, but Star Wars did come a close second in my view and if the prequels had matched the OT then Star Wars would have been the better set of films.


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paul73
post Apr 1 2012, 02:55 AM
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I don't hate the PT, I just like them slightly less than the OT. They are certainly good enough to be called Star Wars. I would also put the entire saga in a list of my top 20 favorite movies of all-time. I believe this preference in my generation for the OT has more to do with nostalgia than anything. That being said, there are a few things about the PT that dissapointed me:

1. The ending of Episode 1. I didn't buy into the idea that all it would take to stop an army of battle droids was to destroy one ship and that this would be accomplished by Annie, who was both very young and inexperienced in battle. When I think back to Ben Kenobi saying to Luke, "When I knew your father, he was already a great pilot", I had visions of an older Anakin, at least a teenager, who was a real pilot.

2. Lack of a strong female Jedi character or Sith character.

3. Too much emphasis on the Jedi, and not enough on "ordinary" people. The OT had a better balance: some adventures involved people who were non-Jedi, like Han, Leia (though she was in the end revealed to be "Force-sensitive"), Chewy, Lando, etc. I believe Jar Jar was meant to be a character like this, but I think because of the poor reception he received after Episode 1, his role was scaled-down, and rightly so.

4. I would've liked to have seen more from Bail. Leia said in her message to Obi-Wan "You served my father in the Clone Wars". I had a picture in my mind of Obi-Wan and Bail having adventures together.

5. Too many lightsaber battles in Episode 3. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy lightsaber battles as much as the next person, but there were 6 of them in this one. I think they could've done without the fight between General Grevious and Obi-Wan; actually I could've done without Utapau altogether - I would've rather have seen a hand-to-hand fight between Grevious and Chewbacca, and seen more of the wookie homeworld Kashyyyk.


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Master
post Apr 5 2012, 12:09 PM
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My love of Star Wars started with the PT and I can say that I love OT and PT equally. PT is impressive, it's bigger and more comprehensive. But it lacks the spirit of OT, its adventurous mood. I can't separate these two things because Star Wars is a whole entity.


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Leiafan
post Jun 17 2012, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Master @ Apr 5 2012, 01:09 PM) *
My love of Star Wars started with the PT and I can say that I love OT and PT equally. PT is impressive, it's bigger and more comprehensive. But it lacks the spirit of OT, its adventurous mood. I can't separate these two things because Star Wars is a whole entity.

You have a point, but I daresay that the PT was never intended to have the OT's "adventurous mood." As far back as 1982 (that's nineteen EIGHTY two), Lucas was saying that Episodes I-III would be more politics-heavy and probably not as popular as Episodes IV-VI.

I don't like one trilogy over another. My favorite movie of the saga is one of the OT movies (ESB), but then my least favorite movie of the saga is an OT movie too (ROTJ).


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