Every day I'm so impressed with the language skills of people in this forum. Many of you are, like me, not native English speakers. English is your second, third and sometimes even fourth language and I have to say that your handle on grammar, vocab and colloquial expressions are fantastic!

This makes me wonder if your skills extend to pronounciation as well...

Some people speak a second language fluently for decades and they still have a thick, noticable accent. Other people only has basic skills in another language but pronounce those words and phrases like a native.
Odd, isn't it? I guess some people simply make better parrots than others.

If you are a non-native English speaker:
1. Do you think that a native English speaker can tell that you're not?
2. Do you speak with a particular English dialect? (E.g. American, London Cockney, Scottish?)
3. If yes, why did you choose to adopt this particular dialect?

I think every native English-speaker would notice that English isn't my mothertongue. I like some special English accents, for example Scottish, but I can't really speak it.
Well, I'll know in summer when I do a language-journey in England and meet a lot of native English persons.

I like the American-english more then the British-english !

It sounds cute if a American speaks German

1. Yes, pretty easy, since I still have troubles with the pronounciation of the v and the b or the past tense, also while I'm speaking, I tend to mix tenses or pronouns, mostly because of the hurry. And I usually forgot or don't knwo how to say some words in english. Curiously, they think that I'm portuguese or italian.

2.At first I think that I had an american accent, mostly, because is the english I learn, especially through "Friends". Now I guess I'm starting to get used to the coloquial phrases and words (like fancy my chances, etc.) used here at the Midlands, as well as the pronountation.

3. I didn't any choice in the matter, so I'm adapting to my current situation.

I just had to thought about that "Media Markt" advert on TV, with this "good buy"-camera...

1- Absolutely. You cannot help pronouncing some sounds of your native language that are not in English. Example, the R is Spanish is avery strong sound. If you studied phonetics, like I have, you learn to pronounce it correctly. But most of the Spanish speakers I know pronounce the R incorrectly. And also what Ben said.

2- I learnt RP English, and during some time, I loved talking in British accent, but later on, I adopted a more American one.

3- I dunno, maybe because the British RP sounded too correct, and I'm not correct at all, so that's why I chose a more American accent.

Interesting! You all seem very aware of your "flaws". I thought I was the only one who obsessed over that.

Swedish speakers have great difficulty with certain letters too. V in village and J in judge for example. To this day, when I'm very tired (or drunk *L*) I sometimes slip on those. Also, the language has a speach pattern which is completely different so that's a difficult thing to get rid of.

Our schools teach RP ("Recieved Pronounciation", a kind of general British accent) too. It never suited me. I switched to a general American accent in my early teens. Today I adapt my accent to where I am and who I'm talking to. When in Rome... you know? It's very handy when you don't want to be taken for a tourist.

My teacher was from Edinburgh - now I have that accent.
I was recently asked by a native English speaker if I came from there.
My main problem was that my second teacher was from California and so I tended to mix up both accents.

Pronounciation isn't really much of a problem - but now that I learned Japanese I tend to mix up "R" and "L".
Now I take a few lessons of Klingon (related to Russian) and Italian (their "R" sounds great!) to get a hold on that mix-up.

Be happy he wasn't from Glasgow. Edinburgh is less than an hour away and the accent is completely different. The Glasgow accent is insane!

Speaking of Californians... that accent has this eerie ability to penetrate anything. Have you noticed? It carries... far! Don't know if it's just that they're especially loud or something, but it's weird. *L*

Most of the English institutes teach RP and the exams are taken with Cambridge or Oxford. But some others are now teaching American English.

For a while now I've wanted to switch permanently to a European English accent because... well, I'm not American or British but at least a British accent is a little closer to home.

Unfortunately most of the accents contain colloquial quirks that don't suit me.
(For example how some accents don't pronounce their R's, swallow the T at the end of words or add a question after every other sentence, like so: That's no good, is it?)

Right now I sport a kind of a Middlesex/Essex accent when I'm in Britain. It's allright, but the American accent is more comfortable since it's speach patterns is closer to Swedish patterns.

1. Yes.
2. Not consciously.

My biggest problems are with toning s [z] on words like eyes, and to a lesser degree j [dj]. I think most Swedes who speak decent English forget about their z:s, because that is a sound almost non-existing in Swedish. Even pop groups like Ace of Base have sung about the "lice in your ice" when they meant "lies in your eyes".

Edit: Haha! ( z ) translated to a little guy, some kind of funny icon:

For most Taiwness (Chinese) speakers, the "R" and "L" are often mixed up. I'm lucky to be learning in the U.S. for three years. As I was born in the U.S. my parents wanted me to go back once I finish schooling. My Taiwaness accent isn't strong, but I find it tarrible ! So I tand to practice, but most of my teachers can't speak any better.
Troubled, Troubled, Troubled...

carlsson: Very true. The s/z is the first thing you learn in school. Maybe people forget with time? *L*

Arathia: It's probably not as bad as you think. I've noticed that sometimes the "flaws" are only audible to you alone.
The memory of what you used to sound like when you were less skilled kind of gets stuck in your memory and you still hear it even though it's not there anymore. Kind of like phantom pains after you've lost a limb.

It took me until 8th grade or so before I got a decent hang of the two toneless and toned th sounds, and an awful lot of Swedes still speak them with f and d:

Aj fink diss längvish iss hard. (or so-called Sven-Goran Eriksson speech)

ok now me!


1. i think i do have an accent...some people like D_K or Warrame mentioned it when we were talking...its not bad but its there, sometimes i can make it go away completely*if i talk more often* and sometimes not, i didnt notice having trouble with pronouncing certain letters...

2. i speak with an american accent which i picked up on tv, i can swich on english but i miss some expressions to make it believable or a bit of scottish or the accent from the south of usa which was my best friend and my fav in highschool....*we used to talk like that all day* again, i couldnt go to scottland and talk like that or to the south of usa cause i lack more knowlegde...

3. i like the american accent best, i like it more than the english for some reason although my mum keeps arguing with me on that poing...

huh...that's weird, i totally didn't notice that...

also weird, because most people think i speak too quietly

oh yeah, and most people from other countries speak better english than we americans speak other languages probably because in america, we are only required to take 2 years of a foreign language to get into college...most people are impressed when i say i took 4 years of japanese

*i'm from california...near los angeles/hollywood, for those of you that didn't know that*

It should be compulsory, the same way is almost compulsory to learn English in other countries, like here. You have LOTS of bilingual schools, lots of English institutes and now, if you don't know English, you don't qualify for jobs.

You have little kids that from kindergarden are taught both languages, and I think is pretty good, since that prepares them for life, at least in comunicating with others.

1. Do you think that a native English speaker can tell that you're not?
2. Do you speak with a particular English dialect? (E.g. American, London Cockney, Scottish?)
3. If yes, why did you choose to adopt this particular dialect?

Of definitely! I don't use my english speaking skills often enough and sometimes when I hear myself I'm horror struck lol. I don't know correct this is but and english proffesor at Lunds University once said that Swedes in genral think they're SO good at english when in fact they're not. I have several friends who say they are fluent in english. I just wanna challenge them on that every time
Besides the english you learn in swedish schools is so far away from the actual english used around the world.

Me and a friend once discussed the Harry Potter books. She reads the swedish ones and I read them in english. She asked me if I hadn't read them in Swedish and I told her I had read one or two of the books in Swedish just to see what is was like but I prefer the english ones. And then she suddenly goes expert one me and says that you always miss something if you read them in english and says "I speak fluent english and even I don't understand everything"
What has that got to do with me? Sure there are words I don't understand sometimes but that's when you look it up in a dictionary (an english)

Also I've learned most of my english on the net speaking with people around the world who has english as a native language. Sure I had the highest grade in english at school but that doesn't mean you're fluent.

And what is fluent? Is it when you speak perfectly good english and people can't hear that you're not a native english speaker or is it when you can speak fluent but with bad pronounciation?

As for the accent.. When I was in my young teens I had a more american accent. Then some years later I changed to more euopean or british accent. Also it depends on where I am who I'm talking to or what Iäm doing. If I read the harry Potter books aloud to someone anything but british seems wrong.. I automatically read then with a british accent.

Now I don't know what accent I use.. I only know it's horrible

The problem with Harry Potter books sounds familiar - A french girl who lived in the USA for some years once told me to read HP in German, so that I won't miss a joke.
The discussion came to an aprupt end when I told her that I began learning English 3 years before she was born.

Usually this kind of "I won't miss a joke, but you surely will"-arrogance comes when someone doesn't want to accept that others will understand the foreign language as good as or even better than themselves.

That is very true I'm affraid. I don't know where this over confidence comes from but it's painfully obvious when a person who really is fluent evaluates their skills. Swedes make a lot of mistakes they're not aware of.

The average Swede speaks better English than most other counties who dub English TV/Movies with their own language. However, there are plenty of other countries out there who kick our behinds when it comes to correct English. Denmark and the Netherlands to name but a few.

Good question btw! "When is a person fluent?"
Imho, a person is fluent when they don't have to think before they speak. Language comes naturally and fluently to them. Pronounciation doesn't matter. As long as they have mastered the grammar, don't have to search for words anymore and have long since stopped talking like a robot (i.e. they know how real people speak, as opposed to perfect textbook examples)... then they're fluent.

Also, in order to perfect a particular accent/dialect it's not simply a matter of parroting the sound of it. You have to have extensive knowledge of the local expressions and pop-culture. Otherwise you'll just end up sounding like a stereotype, which is of course completely fake.

[/rant]

Arca Hejaran: It's a simple defence mechanism, isn't it? You knock something down, that you yourself don't have, in order to look/feel better.

It's a bad attitude I think. If you don't challenge yourself you'll never learn anything new.

Jenny: I agree. 2 years is laughable. I feel that even if a person know they'll never have to use that second language it'll give them an invaluable perspective on the world. Language classes aren't simply about learning grammar and vocabulary. They also give you an insight into a different culture. Imho, it's never a good thing to isolate yourself and only think domesically... even if you, hypothetically, lived in a country that covered 95% of the Earth's surface.

queeeeeeen: Had a feeling you'd jump in here.
Coming to the conclusion that Californians are louder than others or have a particular pitch in their accent which makes their voices carry is of course only a theory of mine. I have a staggering amount of unscientific evidence for it though... Oh the stories I could tell...

I hear that a lot.

For example, I refuse to read SW books in Spanish. I hate reading in Spanish unless the book was written in Spanish. And I think the other way around regarding the jokes thing: some jokes lose it's meaning or funny thing when translated, because sometimes it has to do with a play of words that lose sense in other language.

Besides, most of the books are translated into Peninsular Spanish (meaning Spanish from Spain) that is completely different from Latin American Spanish. And also, other books are translated in neutral Spanish (Americas) and have some phrases / words that are not common, for example, in Argentina and Uruguay.

Oh right! I hadn't thought of that before. Books being available (or not) in the correct variation of a certain language. That must be a constant source of irritation.

I never read books originally written in English translated into Swedish. And of course I avoid the subtitles on TV and in movies whenever possible. While you're still learning a language though - subtitles are a fantastic learning tool. I've learned pretty much all my languages that way.

Exactly. For quite some time now, I started watching SW without the subtitles, because reading the captures can make you lose some small details of the picture.

And when we're on the topic of subtitling, sometimes the subtitler completely mishears what is said and makes a very odd translation. When it comes to play with words, it often is impossible to translate, so they have to dream up something totally different. In a few cases, the whole point is lost due to this.

But no matter how good English I can read, I prefer the subtitles since it is much harder to understand spoken language of various dialects than written language. If movies or TV series were subtitled in English (which happens for a few educational programs), it might be an even better option, but anyone who natively understands English is probably supposed to hear what everyone else is saying as well, so there is no market for that kind of subtitling.

Sometimes there are subtitles available in the spoken language, for the hard of hearing. Those are excellent! I sometimes switch them on when I watch a French TV/movie.
(Those bleedin' French! When they don't speak so fast that you'd think their lives depended on it, they mumble. )

I am quite a nutscase regarding English
Whenever I'm super pissed off, I start ranting and insulting in English. This particularly happened with my ex and with my best friend.

Also, when I had my surgery, when I woke up from the anestesia (sp?) I started saying "I can't breathe" several times, and my mom, my friends and the doctors where all "Why is she talking in English"
And also, I dreamt in English and talked in my sleep, and my ex was like "WTF?!"

Yeah me to.. *nods*

Allthough I have to have subtitles on even though I don't like it cause I have rather bad hearing.. but with the star wars movies for examaple I don't need them cause I know each and every line by heart

but most of the time I choose english subtitles instead of swedish...



Yeah I know Sometimes they're the only subtitles avalable.. But they can be rather annoying to. If a song is played in the background for example they subtitle the lyrics and you sit and read along even if you don't want to.

Speaking of english... I use english so often these days that it has come to the point when I talk to someone I can't find the swedish word for something then I use english instead.. also I think and dream in english pretty often

1- I'm French, I've been living in French Canada (quebec) for over a year now.
When English-Canadian ppl come to see me, since they dont even try to speak French ( you evil english canadians), I speak English to them.
Several weeks ago, a young woman came to see me, and as i was talking to her, she stopped me and asked me if I was from Britain.... yes I do sound British lol

I like British English better than American English, so I must confess I took a little British accent over the years, but I think ppl from britain should be able to know i'm not one of them

AHAHA I have a good friend from Michigan, she can read French, but she has trouble speaking or hearing it... why ?? don't understand, we don't speak that fast

Blue i want to hear you in French

Ceri: Yeah, you have to watch it with that as you become fluent in more than one languages. The languages meld together eventually and you find that you search for words in both languages if you're not careful.

Mara: Have you started sounding Canadian yet? What do you friends back home think?

I watched a movie in Canadian-French a couple of days ago. My God! I almost couldn't understand what they were saying!

Oddly enough French has always come more naturally to me than English, as far as pronounciation goes. I don't know that I have an audible Swedish accent in French. Even when I was very young and only spoke a few words - locals would strike up conversations with me and only find out I wasn't French when I ran out of words to use.

(I speak with a typical general French accent, like you hear on TV. Except sometimes when I'm viseting a small village somewhere up in les Aples-Maritimes, where the typical Provançal accent still survives. I like to use it when I'm there.)

I know that I can imitate the different accents but you still hear that I am not a native speaker. I do my best, but it doesn't work . I am gonna train myself until you dont hear it. I wanna go to England for a longer time maybe next year...hope to make it, then!

Sure I have

So I've been told by French ppl, some of them don't believe I,m even French lol

Frwench Canadians can tell i'm not from Quebec, but a year ago, they said: you're french

then they said : "where are you from?"

now it's more like : what part of canada ?

Gah! tell me about it! I'm speaking Spanglish (a rare mixture of Spanish & English) the whole time due my work. We assist in Spanish but all the notes, articles and troubleshooting steps are in EN, plus added that some customers confuse you and mix words and you end up picking that.

Example:

printer (EN) + impresora (SP) = printidora

Or sometimes you end up making a whole sentence 1/2 EN and 1/2 SP, like:

No puede seguir los (She/he can't follow the) troubleshooting steps.

Among my pals and I is really normal, but for the people outside that, let's call it, world, it's something funny or even disturbing.

There is a film called "Spanglish", isn't there? I haven't seen it, but it must be really funny. That Spanglish does indeed sound a bit strange to me, plus I never learned Spanish, It's a pity, but I wanna learn it -- sometime

Padmé: Do you plan to go there and study, or?

Mara: Oh nooooo! They think you're an anglophone?

Jenny: Printidora! That's funny. Do you have more examples?

Mixing Swedish and English is a hazard in my line of work as well since so much of the lingo consists of English words. To people who listen in on me and my colleagues conversations I'm sure it sounds very bizzare.

that's simply not true!
when you're imitating someone, no accent is to be heard...
I've heard it often enough
I think i still have a german accent (and that's not going to change, because my teacher is teaching us anything but speaking english)
i

Not anglophone, no, just another part of Quebec, more like that... since you've been in France, you know how it's like, when a Parisian meet a Marseillais

but the english canadians think i'm british when i speak English

as for my familyand friends, some of them don't even recognize me on the phone now lol

Oh, ok! That makes sense.
I'm not familiar enough with the different accents in Canada to distinguish differences between them. What would be a typical expression that you only hear around where you live?

Thanks, that's a big compliment Although I think you wanted to say "can be heard", what you said is more like you're commanding someone. But your English is very good! I don't know what your problem is Our English teacher sucks aswell, she is so bad, she doesn't even speak the th properly. HORRIBLE!!

Yea, I also have a teacher like that. His English is good, but he speaks it with a horrible Dutch accent. Hie spieks Inglisj somting laik dis.

Well, I don't speak English that often, I only listen to it and read it a lot, so you can probably tell I'm from Holland. When I was on holiday (that's vacation for our American friends) in the USA, they thought I was from Germany.

1. Well, if you mean that I speak slowly and sometimes I can't remind some word, SO YES ( ) but if you mean ACCENT, I think not, cause I think I have really good accent as to 14-age girl

2. I try to talk in British way, but sometimes in American (but still I try speak clear not as Americans, coz they speak HORRIBLY!) ... I have no idea how does sound Scottish...

3. I choose British, coz in my mind, it's very elegant, smart and clear at first And SOMETIMES () American, coz it's probably faster to talk (but anyhow I CAN'T speak such fast as Americans do).

well
1-yes yes , cos i am not that good in english , they can say that i am no native speaker
2_hmmmm , well , the truth that i llllooovve the british accent vveery much and i try to imitate it , but when i speak like Americans.
3- it is not the case of choice
it depemdes ( to me ) on the one i speake with ,, if he/she is Amercian , i speake the same , or if he is british i try to speak the same

1. Of course they can, I have an accent but its not very strong, except when Im in hurry or something, and then I occasionaly sound like some Eastern European villain from James Bond movies, but that is very rare fortunately.

2. I speak American English, mainly because I learned to speak by watching TV and reading US imported books, tho my years of watching Blackadder sometimes come through

3. Its not really a choice, most of the stuff I watched/read on TV ( where I got my english from, even tho in our school british english is standard ) is US made...

I had forgotten about this topic and I'm glad someone brought it up agaon. I've been tryong to speak as much english as possible lately to prepare myself for film school. And I think I've got a lot better. I'm not as good as I was back in school, years ago but once I'm at school I think I might get better since I will have to speak it every day.

I've noticed that when I'm in a hurry or around new people I get really nervous and then my accent is HORRIBLE! But once I get into it I think it's not so bad but of course you can stíll hear it

So a general question.. What is the best thing to do when talking to a native english person? Speak slowly so you get the pronounciation right or fast and not think so much about it. I'm really curous how things will be at film school, since there will be students from 26 different countries. I'm sure there will be a bucnh of native english speakers, but all the rest? From all over there world. That's a whole lot of different accents in one place Interesting!

I think I speak with more of an "american" accent, but then agaain not many americans would agree
I can switch to a more bristish accem if I want, depending on the situation. For example: If I read the Harry Potter books aloud for someone I auctomatically switch to brittish, because it feels more right.

Back to accent case, I think for Poles it's easy to learn English with good accent and pronunciation. We have letters bad to say enough, so English, as quite normal language (excapting these 16 tenses ) is easy...

But I've noticed, that less ambitious and wise people can't say in good way "th" and "r", and sometimes they read some word almost the same as it's written!


Almost the same here, excapting accent, because mine isn't SUCH good... But I'm also nervous..

But ALWAYS - speaking and vocabulary are the most important stuff. Coz though you can't create good sentence, you can tell someone word you mean and he rather gets known what you mean! British will understand not-native people almost always.
Writing isn't such important, but I've noticed, I write such fast though I don't write in Polish But when I have to speak... Stupid think, but making confused.

AGAIN !
inorder not to loss the accent i enjoy
i train it almost every day
i speak to my self , in the bathroom , when i am thinking and During sleep according to my sis who is my room mate

it is true

you do not use it

YOU LOOS IT!

I think the best way to get rid of your accent is to talk to English or American or whatever people. I spent one week near London this year with an English lady and my English improved. And my British English just became normal.
So it's all about practice, people!

agree